Would you sacrifice human society to save the human environment?

Created by: jerome :: 2 years ago

climate change, climate chaos, coal, direct action, peak oil, society

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Vote: +0

"With the failure of Copenhagen and the comming oil and gas crunch driving us towards coal power this will become a more and more pertinent question.

If it becomes apparent that governments will be unable to avoid climate catastrophe, inevitably leading to human extinction (we are already in the throes of a mass extinction event) how far should civil disobedience and direct action go?"

By: jerome :: 2 years ago

Vote: +0

"Some interesting references

http://www.iucn.org/media/materials/releases/?4143/Extinction-crisis-continues-apace

http://www.worldenergyoutlook.org/docs/weo2009/fact_sheets_WEO_2009.pdf

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/back-to-black-return-to-coal-power-793703.html (back to black 2008)"

By: jerome :: 2 years ago

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"We should go all the way with civil disobediance Jerome but the chances of that are very slim in Britain. With a PR guru for a future Prime Minister, do you genuinely believe that failures will be presented as failures? It will be spin, spin spin as we´ve never seen before. it will put Blair´s spin to shame. Let me read your links and references and I´ll write back. As always, thumps up"

By: Jessie :: 2 years ago

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"Thanks Jessie, I have met and respected many people involved in direct action over the years, a wonderful chaotic mix of passion and principals. I have however personally always been more keen on using my skills in positive productive direct action, pushing change from within, before tearing down and starting again. Changing my own consumption and lifestyle and supporting others to do the same. Affecting change from within to me has always seemed more likley to achieve results than distructive confrontational direct action.

As patient as i am, it now seems that we may be reaching a crisis point where change from within becomes pointlessly slow. At what point does direct confrontational intervention become an absolute unavoidable necessity, at how many parts per million CO2 in the atmosphere, with which political decision or failures to decide then comits us to inevitable clmate chaos? at what point does it become critical that we have to get up off from the sofa, and in the interests of human survival, physically shut down coal fired power stations by force?

Clearly just shutting down the main sources of electicity in any developed society will cause chaos. Similarly significantly interrupting any of the supplies of fossil fuels, gas, oil, diesel, petrol or energy intensive consumption would cause social and economic disruption. The problem is that in the classic sustainability triad of society, economy and environment we are still vastly weighted owards social and economic acceptability with overwhelming environmental cost."

By: jerome :: 2 years ago

Vote: +0

"There are only 2 choices,

1. Trust in the capacity of our current society and economy to invest in and accept the rapid revolutionary changes in lifestyle needed to achieve a sustainable, survivable low carbon world.

2. Identify when it is too late for society to change organically from within, then decide how to pull it apart and replace it with something more balanced with environmental limits.

At a national level, dont get me wrong i think the UK and the EU, at least on paper, largley have the right policies with broadly the right timescale. The danger is that one major crisis of energy security could kick those commitments (and hope) into the next world, as keeping the lights on, traffic moving and getting elected becomes more important to leaders. At that point those more interested in human survival need to have a plan b to keep us on the low carbon road.

As you say though Jessie, this failure if it comes, will always be hidden from the mass media behind the spin machine!"

By: jerome :: 2 years ago

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"Hi Jerome, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that it is time for democracy to be put aside and for a revolution to start...I know that this idea comes from frustration , why are things not changing fast enough, why people arent caring enough. The point is that we cant force our views on others. The leaked emails have caused huge problems in people's perception of global warming and this needs to be rectified to get the balance back..."

By: Mark Seth :: 2 years ago

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"Very clever question and my answe is simple, yes I will. Is there a political party out there who is willing to rock the boat that much? Not sure"

By: sam :: 2 years ago

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"Did anybody watch the Lovestock programme on Sunday evening? He was saying that's the end anyway and he believes that within the next 10 years, we will experience much suffering. Gloom and Doom"

By: sam :: 2 years ago

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"I never thought I would write that but I think I would sacrifice a part of human society that feeds on reality TV, the ones that are fascists, the ones who dont want to work but suck the benefit system dry, yes I would get sacrifice that part of humanity. I sound like a Nazi and trust me I´´m not."

By: susie Ch :: 2 years ago