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The community with a green conscience; Environment, Health, Social justice

ORGANIC versus LOCAL

Created by: My Green Cleaner :: 3 years ago

tagslocal, organic, toxic foods, travel miles

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Vote: +2

"What do you think is the better option?

Buying an organic apple from Belize or an a non-organic apple from Norwich?

Please state your personal preference and tell us why :)"

By: My Green Cleaner :: 3 years ago

Vote: +2

"Definitely Local Goods (Food or Non-Food).

Essentially the arguments are complex, but well grown (even if not considered to be organic) seasonal food is more sustainable. "Organic" has been hijacked, there are so many requirements to meet some "ideal". Its a marketing tool and a marketeers dream. The better option would be to have governments force the reduction of dependance on harmful chemicals and bad "farming" practices. The fact that we use a chemical, that can be shown not to be harmful to the environment, should not prevent its use on the grounds that an industrial process has been used to preduce it rather than an organic process (note organic here being used in its original context!)."

By: Xyhfna :: 3 years ago

Vote: +2

"I am all for buying home-grown seasonal products. Why should we continue to add to the planet's problem of pollution and increased co2 emmissions by continuing to buy from other countries? Why not increase jobs and at the same time increase the amounts of food we can produce locally by keeping this at home?"

By: candeeb :: 3 years ago

Vote: +2

"When I buy fruit/vegs, it is usually from our local fruit & veg shop. They have a limited range of organic produce - & certainly buy it if available. I hail from Tasmania (affectionately known as 'The Apple Isle'), sadly, most of the 1st grade apples & cherries, in particular,are exported, & we are left with slightly inferior specimens, but still prefer to buy locally produced fruit & vegs. Tasmanian potatoes, carrots, walnuts, to name a few, & garlic (which is organic, & not 'bleached' as imported from China), are truly tasty.
Am also fortunate to live in a small community where many people generously give what they grow in their own gardens. Yummo!!"

By: Gemholly :: 3 years ago

Vote: +3

"I will always go local, but if I can find local and organic, even better. It has taken a bit of research, due to the stolen 'organic' term, but there are suppliers out there!"

By: Amy Warner :: 3 years ago

Vote: +2

"Try to buy local and certified organic. Lucky to have the option where I live. I have found the local and organic last a lot longer and are more flavourful than supermarket fruit and veg.

Also growing your own vegetables at home or at local community garden is a great option. The area where I live is just starting up a community garden which is intended to be a 'showcase' example of community gardens in our city. :)"

By: Annie :: 2 years ago

Vote: +0

"It depends on if you fear the heat or the loss of species. Candeeb, buying locally doesnt' create jobs, it just moves them away from poor african farmers to your neighbourhood.
Organic can still mean pesticides and fertilisers, so probably you should just cut back on the amount of stuff you buy and reheat more of your leftovers. Canned and frozen veg are also a sensible healthy option."

By: Jan :: 2 years ago

Vote: +4

"Jan,
"Candeeb, buying locally doesnt' create jobs, it just moves them away from poor african farmers to your neighbourhood". This is what you said and I am sorry but I have to disagree with you. If we can increae the amount of locally grown foods in our own backyards, jobs would increase. There would be a greater need for those who cultivate and harvest as well as the number of people who would be able to sell their crops. As for taking the jobs away from the African farmers, well I disagree with you there too. Those farmers need to produce food for themselves and thier communities and not worry about having it shipped over here and to other countries before they feed themselves. We can help them with giving them seeds and the know-how to plant and cultivate thier own crops, but they have to work thier own fields to provide for themselves first before thinking about supplying the restof the world with the food they need for themselves. And not only that, the amount of CO2 emmisions that it takes to first plant and grow the crops is huge and then they have to ship their goods to all the other contries which causes more CO2 emissions to be released. As for reheating leftovers, I am the frst one to opt for not wasting anything. But when it comes to using frozen and canned vegetables, I have to say that is not an option for me. Have you stopped to read the label on those frozen veggies and canned veggies to see what preservatives are in them? I would much prefer to spend a little extra to have the locally grown frest veggies. And I dont only depend on the local growers, I also grow a lot of my own veggies as well as fresh herbs and share them with my neighbors.
I think your heart is in the right place but I dont think you really get the gist of this whole debate. Did you read any of the other replies to this question? They also make for good arguments about what the question is posing. You might want to research this topic a little more."

By: candeeb :: 2 years ago

Vote: +4

"I also am sorry to say that I disagree with Jan, "buying locally doesnt' create jobs, it just moves them away from poor african farmers to your neighbourhood." Besides what Candeeb said, not all imported fruit and veg are from Africa, they can come from China, Mexico, USA, India, etc, or from the other side of your own country. They can spend a lot of time in cold storage, which is not good for the nutritional benefit and the flavour of fruit and veg, they also do not last as long even in the fridge. I know a lot of local farmers that are struggling to stay viable.
"Organic can still mean pesticides and fertilisers," If they are certified it shouldn't. What do you believe organic means?
"...so probably you should just cut back on the amount of stuff you buy" Good point, buy only what you need.
"... and reheat more of your leftovers. " Leftovers are great, who throws out good food? Ther e is also the homeless and the disadvantaged that could do with it more (I believe food that is thrown out from supermarkets should go to food banks or homeless shelters) Sounds like something my mother used to say.;)
"Canned and frozen veg are also a sensible healthy option." Candeeb again has a point. The sugar and water that is added is also an issue. Have you checked how much added sugar there is in canned beetroot for example? A lot!
Growing your own fruit and veg and supporting a community garden, a local farmer, or organic farmer is much more beneficial in many ways. Look after your own "backyard' first, encourage others to do the same."

By: Annie :: 2 years ago

Vote: +2

"I agree entirely with Annie but Jan makes a good point though about buying less and reheating the leftovers. i read that the number of waste is critical. We are a generation of waste, not really how I would like to be remembered..."

By: Cecilia :: 2 years ago

Vote: +1

"I think readers of this sheet will like these two links, they save us the hard work of typing out all these points.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/the-great-organic-myths-why-organic-foods-are-an-indulgence-the-world-cant-afford-818585.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/the-great-organic-myths-rebutted-822763.html

Don't just "believe" read about it the label "Organic" has lots of room for flexibility, ideally grow your own, and find out just how hard it is, for the record I do.

Frozen food is as fresh as it gets there is no need to add preservatives, thats because its frozen, because it is frozen at source it actually can contain more vitamins than "fresh" locally produced shop bought food. And it is easy to find unsweetened canned sweetcorn for example.

It is probably also worth reading about what the Common Agricultural Policy did to the farmers of developed nations.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/jun/26/eu.politics1

That was ineffect an attempt to protect locally grown produce, by buying british grown food you will take the jobs away from developing nations and in the 1980s was possibly not the best thing we could have done to those poor fellas out in Africa."

By: Jan :: 2 years ago

Vote: +3

"Most of what is said is undoubtedly true, and could/should be commended. I have a few issues with the Soil Association in that they only permit 4 pesticides, and their view of why people buy organic. They, like others, manipulate information. I refuse to by items that are labelled "Organic" as a primary selling point. I buy Fair Trade, I buy fresh/frozen vegetables, I have a vegetarian diet, I grow my own fruit and veg, and I make a point of trying to buying horticultural products (not including equipment) that are bio-degradable. If an item that i want is labelled organic as part of a list of programmes, then i might consider buying it, instead of an alternative. I know from experience that it is sometimes difficult to grow produce due to pests (greenfly, whitefly, blackfly, slugs, snails, caterpillars) and weeds. This year and last, there has been a higher prevalence of pests, and this year there is a major lack of pest controlling beneficial predators (ladybirds, amphibians, etc). My snail population has exploded, and between the white-, black- and green-fly together they have destroyed a large number of my plants. I use a ferrous based "organic" granular compound as a snail/slug repellent, which seems to work. Unfortunately, the "organic" pesticides for the control of white-, black- and green-fly are not fantastically effective, but after several applications what the pests didn't kill seem to be recovering, but its a somewhat depleted population. It doesn't help that we are experiencing hotter drier summers which the plants are not used to, and the loss of the predators means that there is little to do except accept the losses or invest in non organic controls. As for weeds, i have yet to find an adequate solution organic or otherwise to control weeds."

By: Xyhfna :: 2 years ago

Vote: +3

"Organic vs Local is a bit of a strange debate; and certainly not one with any real answers. As with most things in the eco arena, the answers will depend on what your measuring and why.

forgetting for just one moment all the petty squabbling over the "Organic" label, one might argue that contamination of water courses is a sensible measure of the impact of chemicals (organic or otherwise), a farm that does not as any nitrogen (using only clover or similar to fix nitrogen in the soil) will come out higher than one that adds nitrogen fertiliser (organic or otherwise!), this can of course be repeated for most chemicals. If the issue is the amount of emissions caused by the transportation of goods, then one might argue that local is best, but that argument would fail if the goods were grown across country, and transported by Zero Emission Vehicles.... the arguments in this field are too complicated to reduce to a simple "this vs that" scenario. This kind of argument, if not taken for what it is (i.e. a though provoking exploration of some of the issues involved), leads to the factionalism and targeted campaigning seen in the "organic vs traditional vs gm" debate playing out in the media.

what ever you do, please do not take anything written on this discussion to heart, a co-ordinated approach to resolving some of these issues is needed as is consensus on what is required and desired."

By: Xyhfna :: 2 years ago

Vote: +3

"i would buy local. i think organic has become a marketing concept as an excuse to overprice food products!"

By: aimee :: 2 years ago

Vote: +1

"I have to agree with Xyhfna in that this is an argument that could go on forever. I think the bottom line is what is the best solution for our planet. How best can we help our planet and keep it from any further damage by us. If that means buying local and/or organic then so be it. If it means taking into consideration what fertilizers and pesticides are used that leach into the ground water, then lets find a solution for that. There are so many aspects to this question and so many different ideas about how to resolve them. This is a good thing, the more ideas we have the better to choose from. I know we have a lot of very intelligent people here who really care about our planet and I know we can resolve this problem if we just decide to work together and it may take more than a single idea to resolve this.

I think everyone has made some great observations and come up with some wonderful ideas and arguments so, come on and lets see what we can come up with collectively to resolve this problem for the sake of all of us and our planet."

By: candeeb :: 2 years ago

Vote: +0

"I forgot to add yesterday the most important thing of all, let's start to back up our words with actions. We can't afford to wait as each moment we delay only exascerbates the problems even further. While you may think that you as one person can't possibly effect any change all on your own, you couldn't be more wrong. Not only can you effect change , but you can lead by example, teach others how they can help. One person at a time if need be until we have amassed an army of people who are eager to create the changes that we need to save our planet and all that lives ok it."

By: candeeb :: 2 years ago

Vote: +4

"organic foods is original man eaten foods from times im-memorial, gone are those days when people were more grown in bodies and very strong in physiques...now we are fully under-development...we got to go back to BASICS...organics foods of every sorts will be the medicine for our foods and foods as our MEDICINE."

By: Amateeni :: 2 years ago

Vote: +1

"I think we have become a society of extravagance and convenience. What ever happened to charity begins at home? I understand that it is important to help other nations and certainly those that cant help themselves, however we have problems right in our own backyards that need to be addressed before we run off and start spending money and sustainability in other countries. I completely understand that we need to help those nations and underdeveloped people who have no other recourse then to look to such countries as the US, Britain and China. But I also believe that we cant truly help anyone if we don't first put out all the fires in our own backyards. We are not in a position to help out anyone until we have first dealt with our own problems and made the necessary resolutions in our own country. To continue to deny this fact, will only continue to create the problems that are ongoing here in our country and allow for us not to be able to help anyone in the long run."

By: candeeb :: 2 years ago

Vote: +2

"could we perhaps persuade our local farmers to go organic. It doesn't bother me if it is certified or not, because that costs the farmer a lot, but if there is mutual trust and good dialogue I will buy the food from uncertified 'grown without chemicals' farmer.
At the moment I find it hard to source local producers and although I would sincerely prefer not to eat food that has accrued fuel miles (and grown in monocrop processes) I would still prefer not to ingest inorganic fertiliser and pesticides...If I can help it.
I think if you cant persuade your local producers to go organic then it is a choice that you have to make...chemicals or carbon!"

By: katiedevenish :: 2 years ago

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